Layout:
Home > Most doctors aren't wealthy

Most doctors aren't wealthy

September 4th, 2006 at 09:14 am

To continue with my reflections on "The Millionaire Next Door"...

One thing that really surprised me was its report on doctors. Apparently, despite the fact that their average income is four times the average American household's income, two-thirds of them are Under Accumulators of Wealth (UAWs)--they don't have as much wealth as expected (p. 74).

Why? Some of the reasons I've already discussed in the preceding post--namely that they have more educational debt and a late start in generating income for saving and investing.

The other reasons were more unexpected. Doctors hold a higher societal status, and thus must maintain higher domestic overhead in order to keep up appearances and respectability, by living in nice neighborhoods, driving nice cars, wearing nice clothes, etc. (pp. 75-76).

Another reason is that they are generous, both with their time and their money. They're so busy tending patients that they don't have the time or mental energy to do financial planning. And they give away larger portions of their incomes to "noble causes". And because everything assumes that doctors are rich and don't need money, doctors don't receive as much in inheritances (p. 77).

The reason why I thought this was interesting and relevant is because I've been told, and sometimes repeatedly, that:

- I should go to medical school and become a (rich) doctor.

And/or:

- I should marry a rich doctor.

Was this the wrong advice all along? When parents want their kids to pursue high income, high status careers, thinking that it will help their kids get by comfortably, will it backfire unless they also teach their kids the drawbacks of such careers?

Personally, I have no interest in med school (I hate dealing with patients, I much prefer lab animals--animals bite, patients sue Stick Out Tongue). The fact that I hate keeping up high-maintenance appearances will probably doom my practice to failure, anyway.

Anyway, I found this tidbit interesting, and thought I'd share for posterity's sake.

43 Responses to “Most doctors aren't wealthy”

  1. broken arrow Says:
    1157370037

    My parents are doctors. Personally, I don't care to be one myself, even though they've offered me to go through medical school.

    In any case, yes, they do have to maintain some kind of social appearance. I don't know why that is, but that is what my mother told me one time. My mother, however, is also very frugal, and I know that whatever it is that they don't overdo it. Probably it's mostly just for social functions and for the sake of networking.

    However, as you have mentioned, there are two things that are going on here: Wealth (which again, to me is net worth), and status.

    I've addressed status, but in terms of net worth, I think things aren't as bad for my parents as the book makes them out to be, due to their fairly frugal nature. But yes, I would agree that, when it comes down to it, it's not how much you make that matters, but how well you manage what you have.

    Of course, the ideal scenario is to having both fiscal discipline AND a high income, but I'm certainly not going to become a doctor just to do so.... Sorry, mom! Big Grin

  2. baselle Says:
    1157421436

    I've got to laugh about that doctors giving big to non-profits. Time, yeah I'd believe that, but money? I work at a big non-profit, and trust me, the local ones ain't giving to or through us. Smile Maybe we forgot the underarm deodorant.

  3. Doug Says:
    1205201364

    To both that posted about Doctors being rich... that is truly the most over statement ever. For starters - you are right about trying to maintain social status but for some reason, morons and mostly hoochie woman who like to hear the word Dr. are not educated about reality - who knew?

    Doctors for the most part do a grueling residency program that pays them about $30,000 per year for about 6-8 years depending on their program. They work crazy hours truly their whole career, deal with suing patience etc.. what you didn't write is this - the most important. Most people for some odd reason will say their salary or are looked at upon their salary but not their profit.. I don't get it. Example - a used cars salesman who gets paid a salary and commission - of let's say $85,000 per year is way ahead of a Doctor's salary (when you include debt/expenses etc) he is way ahead of A doctor until the Doc reaches about 50 years old.. and I say.. who cares - I'd like the money now! Reason being - listen up hoochies... Doctors work horrible hours, the average Doctor makes $195,000 per year but not til the age of 35 or so. Than what many told realize or want to admit - A Doctor certainly has to pay taxes on earnings like everyone else, plus, they owe about $200,000 in schooling, and they pay about $85,000 per year on insurance including malpractice insurance etc. The only way Doctors who are younger that you see parading in a nice car, a nice neighborhood is because banks will offer someone with a degree that has a job outlook of never losing - easy to get loans. So if a younger Doctor in his 40's says he owns in great car and his great house.. WRONG! Doctors make when it's all said and done - about $8,000 per month - almost the same as the used car salesman who never paid a time for schooling, nor does he pay a dime for malpractice insurance etc.... a sad commentary but true! So woman, the next time someone says what they do for a living.. if you are going to be a loser and ask.. regardless, ask them what their profit is after expenses - you'll be shocked! But than again, most will lie.. but now you know. Read it, live it, understand it!

  4. Brad Says:
    1212121051

    I have to disagree with the above. Unlike the car salesman, the doctor has JOb Security. And with the direction America is going in, that is something to think about. Also, the middle class would include the salesman. The direction of the world is no longer like the 60s and 70s where most people had the same opportunity as people with more education. The gap is widening between very wealthy and poor and the middle class will be split. History proves this, read about the Roman Empire, the British empire, and etc... The car salesman and other jobs like this, WORRY ABOUT LAY OFFS, where as doctors never hear that. You can't take away that expensive education that Mr. MD has. You will always need doctors, we will not always need a car salesman and the world is changing fast. Also another benefit about being a doctor, you go where you want. If you want a pratice in rural Kentucky you can do it! Most other jobs though you go where you are needed and where there is a next available position. My father is a dermatologistand and lives in the mountains in Carolina. I have to say we lived very nicely, way above average. Your right, it is hard and tedious, but not only do you get wealthy, you help people, and with that comes respect and gratitude. My dad makes well over 150 in profit, no lie, I have no reason to lie, and he will make that for life guaranteed, never has ro worry about losing his job, and the best part, he can choose what days he wants to work. He closes the practice down on Wednesdays and has weekends off. Cant really do that with most other jobs. Sorry man, but your are wrong, you need to stop looking at the doctors who have had 2 ex wives who are sucking them dry.

  5. Doug Says:
    1213062406

    get over it doug, i know it sucks not to get into medical school, but meh

  6. Anonymous Says:
    1215837424

    It is hilarious to read about the jealousy directed towards doctors. My parents are doctors, both specialists, and pull in 7 figures annually. The only reason doctors drive expensive luxury cars and purchase large homes is because they can afford it. Our family has a well deserved lavish lifestyle and I'm very grateful for it. Try directing your hatred to a profession that you can rightfully prove is not wealthy. Medicine is a gold mine, sorry haters!!

  7. Pat Says:
    1215837741

    I would have to agree. My neighbor is a single doctor and the lifestyle he leads is amazing. He owns a Bentley Continental GT and a BMW 7 series. Doctors are undoubtedly wealthy even if they don't invest their money well.

  8. amberfocus Says:
    1215864246

    All right, I've been following the comments here, and although I've been mostly absent, I feel obligated to step back in again here.

    Commenters are misunderstanding the point of the post.

    Here's the deal. No one is saying that doctors don't make money. No one is saying that doctors don't have nice lifestyles. No one is jealous of them (at least, I'm certainly not -- I made the decision to drop pre-med, but the option to do it is certainly still open, especially the MD/PhD route).

    However -- and THIS is the point -- when one analyzes doctors based on whether they are UAWs or PAWs, they tend to be UAWs.

    This means that when you perform the calculation of how much wealth you would expect them to have compared to how much money they make, they fall below the expected threshold.

    This finding is based on HARD DATA. The interpretation and rationalization of the data can be argued -- I can think of many right now, the most prominent of which is, "Who cares about whether you're an UAW when you're making seven figures? Better to be a UAW doctor than a PAW cashier at McDonalds!", which, if anyone made that argument, would be point well taken.

    But you cannot argue with the data itself, which found that two-thirds of doctors are UAWs (unless you want to contest the methodology or something). And *that* is the point.

    ~mimi

  9. James Says:
    1228880004

    I am responding to DOUG's statement above. I am the son of a surgeon and have to ask were you heard that all doctor's make $85,000 a year? That's weird because my father makes $840,000 a year as a plastic surgeon. I would remind everyone that the "average" salary you read about on internet sites doesn't take into account the years of experience and LOCATION of the practice. That's like saying ALL CEO's make a certain amount... it varies from person to person. My uncle is also a family doctor and makes over $400,000 a year. The bottom line is that physicians range from well-off to very wealthy. There is variation in medicine as in all other fields. The bottom line is that even after over-head and insurance, doctor's lead great lives( at the very least)! They deserve what they have earned. The most important thing to acknowledge is that they help people, not to mention save lives from time to time. That's their greatest wealth!!!

  10. alex208 Says:
    1231000521

    ok - the problem here is that everyone is taking specific cases and turning them into broad generalizations. Doctors (like many other careers) have a wide range of income from low to very high. I am a medical student. When I graduate I am going to have around 200K in debt, and nothing saved other than a few thousand dollars in my 401K from my job right after college. My brother, who is around the same age as me is a trader at a hedge fund. He is 26 years old and pulled in around 200K in his first year of work.In addition, they have many tax loop holes that they can take advantage of, so they end up paying less taxes on enormous bonuses to their salary. Their company is growing and doing very well despite the recession. Now, financially who do you think is better off and who is going to be better off - clearly you know the answer. Now is my brother an exception, I don't know - probably? Most of my friends aren't making 200K but then again most of my friends are in med or grad school. Is that guy whose uncle is making over 400K as a family practice doctor (and I assume that is net (after expenses) an exception? Probably. And that is the point.

  11. Rahul Says:
    1236242452

    Talking about maintaining social appearance, even your local friendly lawn-mowing Mexican immigrant will be dressed in Nike shoes and Kenneth Cole Jeans and a AE sweat shirt. Trust me, in America, everyone is concerned about outwardly appearance - not just doctors. But you're right, docs aren't earning much these days thanks to loans to pay back, high malpractice insurance and high taxes.

  12. Bintz Micah Says:
    1242337830

    I think doctors make a lot of money. When their in medical school they get payed and average of 75,000 a year. And one of the richest kind of doctors make about 1.3 million a year. And that was the sallary in 2003,the sallary now has obviously gone up. I agree that some kinds of doctors don't get payed alot.But it depends what kind of doctor you become.Just remember,if you want to be a rich doctor, you will have to spend a lot of years in medical school

  13. Dr. Xavier N. Roberson Says:
    1245512439

    Hello, I am a Pain Interventionalist from New York City and I live VERY well. These scenarios are VERY situation specific!!!!!! I rake in $935k POST tax as the owner of a Private Anesthesia group in Orange County, California. PLEASE review your facts before posting such information.... Just because you found more pleasure in doing God knows what with your life while others pursued very high level of education doesn't mean you should bash us for the incomes we make and life styles we can afford to live. I am very offened by a few of these comments. None the less I doubt ANY of you have a clue what really goes on in the life of a Physician. Good day!

  14. jeff Says:
    1247151199

    God, you guys are the real ignorant here saying that doctors don't make much money. Of course, the average doctor makes about 100k, but there are many exceptions. My dad is the medical director and doctor of a NICU(neonatal intensive care unit) and makes about 800k a year. Stop making generalizations and face it, doctors get to help people and make decent money..

  15. jeff Says:
    1247151231

    God, you guys are the real ignorant ones here saying that doctors don't make much money. Of course, the average doctor makes about 100k, but there are many exceptions. My dad is the medical director and doctor of a NICU(neonatal intensive care unit) and makes about 800k a year. Stop making generalizations and face it, doctors get to help people and make decent money..

  16. Richkid Says:
    1257919541

    Please stop with all the generalizations!! You can't knowledgeably discuss the salaries of doctors if you don't actually know their finances. My parents are both doctors and we're loaded!! My father is a heart-surgeon and my mother is a neurosurgeon and collectively pull in more than 2-2.5 million dollars annually.Get a life and stop hating!! BALLINNNNNNNN

  17. rolexx Says:
    1260917260

    Lol at the idiot who said he owns a private Anesthesia group... your myspace page shows you as a 22 year old kid. Nice try moron.

    And to the poster above me, no your parents are surgeons... I am pretty sure they wouldn't raise an idiot like you to go around bragging about that wealth. Nice try to all the liars on this post. The truth remains that medicine is NOT the gold mine most people think it is.

  18. rolexx Says:
    1260917330

    *not

  19. Richkid Says:
    1261770340

    WOW nice comeback Rolex hahahah, by the way nice name, got a couple of them myself. (The Rolex Submariner and Oyster Perpetual in case you were wondering.) I'm pretty sure I know the profession of my parents bud. Who the hell are you to tell me that my parents aren't surgeons you imbecile? My parents studied long and hard for that title and are now reaping the harvest from their diligence and determination. I would bet my life on it that you're not a doctor so you cannot wholeheartedly make a statement that medicine "is NOT the gold mine most people think it is" because you aren't one and will likely never see one fourth of the money that we see monthly in your lifetime!!! (Reports are generalizations and lack accuracy as I can tell you that for a fact because of the vast amount of money I deal with on a weekly basis.) Next time you open your mouth consider the consequences. Aren’t you ashamed of yourself- humiliated by a 16 year old. Isn't difficult to digest? When you express hate and jealousy then I can slap you up with the reality of life and the colossal gap between where u stand and where I stand on the socioeconomic ladder. But if it makes you feel any better I’m no ordinary 16 year old kid. I’m probably the smartest kid in my school and the likely valedictorian not to mention I get all the girls. Okay I proved my point so I’m gonna go back to eating my caviar. HAHAHAHAHAHAh

  20. ImRicher Says:
    1262479567

    I work at Goldman Sachs. The low end "suckers" working there pull in $2-5 million in bonus alone, read the headlines. Higher up, your head starts spinning.

  21. dentist Says:
    1262635676

    I'm a dental student and I've never heard these low salaries. A general doc/dent makes about 400k per year and specialist over a million. That's the real generalization. So it only takes us at most TWO years to become the millionaire next door!

  22. amberfocus Says:
    1287063349

    I stopped updating this blog a while ago, but I still continuously get comment notifications for this entry.

    I'm fine with healthy discussion, but the comments have been bothering me -- flaming/trolling and generally non-productive. I've even deleted a few of them, and I'm considering disabling comments (if that's possible). I think the reason for this is because many posters fundamentally miss the point behind this post.

    The point is not to say that doctors don't make money. The point is that doctors, despite being well-educated and generally highly compensated, are generally not Prodigious Accumulators of Wealth due to non-frugal lifestyles.

    The definition of "wealth" here is specifically NOT tied to salary itself.

  23. G money Says:
    1290550465

    Pretty much all the jabronis here talking about their dad and mom making money are pointless little lives.
    Second of all, Dr. Xavier is an impersonator stupid nigger who you can find on facebook, there is no doctor under that name listed anywhere on the web.
    I must say that doctors live comfortably, depending on what they do and where they work. It also depends on expertise and amount of work/books they have.
    Your average doctor makes $200-500k year after taxes are paid, I am family doctor in 7300 sq. ft. home (build my illegal mexicans), i have old ass cars, my other cars stores in 5 car garage they don't work at all, and I don't have money or incentive to buy a new fucking car because I have to pay bills. Overall my kids are spoiled little brats who are now grown up and fucking up their lives in spite of all care we give them...it sucks to be a doctor or anyone else if you have problems within your family, but then again you isolate yourself, as a possessional, to keep helping people and not let your personal life interact with your patients'.
    Yes there are doctors with Bentley and Ferraris on their driveways, they are single, egoistic, and dumb. I know doctor who made 12 million in one year in Houston, but then I know 23 year old real estate professional who made $500k in commercial real estate, after he dropped out of college. People with most pressure, who can handle it, will do best in life. You can have all money in the world if you want it.

  24. Londale thompson Says:
    1292704391

    There are alot of physicians that earn very high incomes,but on the other hand they are high consumers as well, not all though. Just because someone earns a million a year, doesnt mean that they are wealthy!

  25. cway Says:
    1294877433

    There are some, no matter how hard they try, will just not make the mark for med school; that doesn't mean you have to harness so much hatred and grudge for doctors and then populate the web with misleading information.

    I know that med school is very hard to get in but surely there are other fields that you can get into that might quench your grudge for doctors. On second thought, they might satisfy you financially, but you will always remain as second class to others in the present of Mr/Miss MD.

    Yes, doctors might not save a lot of money, but why store up water when there is a very large reservoir above you with numerous pipes running from it to your property. Surely that reservoir is no where near to be destroyed and there is surely no indication that there will be a possible natural disaster.

  26. Lyda Says:
    1299220185

    The "Rich Doctor" stereotype only seems to be held true in Canada and the USA, especially USA.

    In no other country in the world, will you find doctors, on average, making as much as American doctors. Why do you think they all come to the US to find work?

    In some other countries, doctors work very long, grueling hours, in poor conditions and are payed peanuts, well maybe a bit more compared to some other people in the same country. Statistics don't lie. Look it up. Even doctors in the UK make considerably less money than American doctors.

    Why is that?

    Healthcare.

    USA is one of the few countries in the world with very privatized healthcare. And it takes little example to show that a lot of money can be made off of it. But many other countries either have state-funded healthcare, or very poor healthcare. But it is easy to see how medicine becomes a burden on the state, and everyone gets their cuts, even the salaries of doctors.

    Although there are odd cases, such as plastic surgeons in Thailand or Brazil who are making loads of money.

    Canada seems to feel the effects of public health-care less than European nations, but give them time, more people and less money and you've got a healthcare crisis.

    The truth is, medicine in most other countries is just not a prestigious job. But someone's got to do it. In the USA, people don't seem to have this mentality. In fact, it is seen as something exclusive and honorable. Yet, it always seems as if there are never enough doctors. Why?

    That's because the shortage of doctors is created on purpose. You may think it's silly, but it's all in the money. If med schools were so easy to get into, and people were getting their MDs by the second, why create such a high salary for such a would-be common profession? The AMA sets standards that deter many people from the idea of med school. Only a select, enthusiastic few get in, and while the fees for med school are expensive, the doctor graduates will get all their money back in the future, multiple-fold.

    I don't think I need to explain any further. There are more shocking details about the medical system in the US I could say, but I've said enough on the course of the topic.

    The point is, you're wrong. Doctors make A LOT of money. But only in the USA. Everywhere else, it's a low-yielding job. Why do you think in the USA, MD degrees from other countries (besides Canada) are not allowed? Like I said, it's to keep the exclusivity. And a doctor who graduated in the US is not going to a poor country if they want to make money. They'll stay in the US, where all the money is.

    I love America, but facts are still facts. This could change with Obamacare, but I hope not. I hope America remains the place where doctors can become the richest, so that there may be a socioeconomic gradient across the world to fuel dreams about medicine.

  27. Jeffery Says:
    1300901306

    I am a medical physican and I proudly brang home 5.3 million dollars home after taxes, however i do understand what is trying to be explain....I did not start making money until I was North of 40 because I had outstanding studet loans and high taxes.

  28. Kevin Says:
    1311262738

    Lydia! Great post. Me myself I work as a resident in neurosurgery in Sweden, studied at one of the most prestigous medical universities in the world. The salaries we have here are nowhere close to the ones you have over there though.

    I think the salaries in the USA are extremely high, especially compared to other job groups, wonder how you guys will be able to keep it up.

  29. Larry P. Wasser, MD Says:
    1312148393

    I am a board certified hematologist/oncologist who practiced for thirty years. I was forced to retire after three cervical spine surgeries left me with chronic pain that prevented me from continued practice. Cood disability insurance provide me with an income of $120,000/ry until age 65. I retired with a modest net worth of $3,500,000. I miss medical practice. It is one those rare professions whick allow us to make a positive difference in people's lives. I know of no more rewarding profession.

  30. Wall Street Says:
    1313792669

    Surgeons? Doctors? Really, well surgeons and doctors my ass!! If you guys were really surgeons/doctors, you would not have time for these stupid conversations! All you guys should be studying in school rather than minding other people's business. I found this out because while I was working, my son had disrupted me about this article. First off, this waisted my time, and for your information, I work at wall street, and (I'm not going to brag about my pay) but I deal with money, and finance and economics. All of you are lying because I know everyone's pay. Now you kids stop arguing and start studying. (If you wanted to know why I wrote this article, I wrote it because my son had showed me this and I was very annoyed at the comments.)

  31. amberfocus Says:
    1314027303

    I'm incredibly surprised that, five years after I wrote it, this post still generates comments.

    It wouldn't bother me so much if the vast majority of them don't completely miss the point of my original entry, which is that doctors tend to be UAWs rather than PAWs. I never claim that doctors don't earn money, nor that the medical profession is not a worthy one -- in fact, quite the opposite.

    If I could disable further commenting, I would. I no longer blog publicly about my personal finances, but this is the topic that will never die. I'm sorely tempted to delete this post/blog entirely, but I won't for the time being.

    However, I will be deleting any comments that I find irrelevant to the discussion. I don't really want rant-y flame wars going on in even a retired blog.

  32. Thanks Says:
    1314060589

    Thank you, amberfocus. That was well said, and I think we should not care about how much a doctor, or any other profession for that matter, makes annually. Who cares? The point is that we should all strive to make ends meet and do our work dilligently! If you want to be successful in life, however, keep in mind of all the hardships that you will have to go through. But in the end, just go for it, and never give up when the going gets tough!

  33. Student Says:
    1319498289

    I have seen this post & I am a practicing student. If you look online, you will clearly see that Interventional Cariologists, (one of the highest payed doctors) make about 800,000 $ a year. Personally,I think this is an irrelevent topic. I want to become a doctor to help people and to give back to the world for what I have been given. I was a premature baby born about 4 months early. I had little to no chance of survival, but it was professional DOCTORS that saved my life. Now, as I sit here and write to you today, I feel obligated to give back to people, and help people against all odds. I know that I can drive Bentley's, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's pursuing a career in the medical field, but what is really important to me is to help others & be the first person EVER in my family to become a medical doctor. Intelligence is a gift, not a priviledge, & it should be used to help others that are not quite as fortunate.

Leave a Reply

(Note: If you were logged in, we could automatically fill in these fields for you.)
*
Will not be published.
   

* Please spell out the number 4.  [ Why? ]

vB Code: You can use these tags: [b] [i] [u] [url] [email]